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current weekly topic My life was out of control Sunday 7pm topic

alan Thursday, 17 January 2019 11:40 am
Alan alcoholic
We are now on the unmanageability part of the step "our lives had become unmanageable".
Current topic I set is "My life was out of control" because I wanted to look at the relationship between control and unmanageability. I had to admit when I came to AA that my efforts at control had led to defeat and only by handing over control to a power greater than myself could life begin to get back towards manageability, this process is accomplished in the first three steps.
Self will is a problem at any time, especially in the early days, and many have battled at the outset to do it "my way" and try and impose their will and "take back control" but the results have generally seemed to be nil until we let go completely. An example is those who, in spite of the AA suggestion that we not make major decisions or enter new relationships in the first year, enter into a relationship anyway in the first months of abstinence. This usually leads to mayhem and unmanageability through imposition of self will rather than acceptingh the simple suggestion given from long AA experience. We only reap what we sow and self will will not grow sobriety.
After all, when undertaking repairs on a faulty electrical system it is prudent to turn off the current while working and the same is true of our warped alcoholic thinking and other things we need to let go of.
I believe that what saved me was that I turned off my thinking when I started in AA and accepted and acted on the suggestions I was given. I have proved to myself that the AA program, when I work it to the best of my ability, will work on all aspects of my life including the unmanageability. I also eventually grew new healthier thinking although it took time. What is, for some, so difficult is to grasp the sheer simplicity of our program.

Chad 16 01 2019 3:43 pm (sent from my mobile)
Chad, alcoholic.  Thank you for the helpful topic and shares, and I can definitely identify with those fears.  No idea, maybe no need to know today if my dire fear of people preceded the abuse and other traumas I went through as a kid in a home affected by alcoholism and other mental illness, but I started trying frantically to do everything on my own, I believe, from a young age--trying an "I" program that contributed to nearly dying of this disease.  Thank GoMU I am part of the "We" of AA today--the most loving, supportive, genuinely helpful family I could ever need.  

David 16 01 2019 4:04 am (sent from my mobile)
Grateful today be sober today, grateful to be alive and to be of oppression, free of tyranny, free to stop over thinking, and free to get into action, rather than contemplation and analysis, paraylsis of analysis as we share and use in AA. Working the program leads to difference, difference of emotions, different of thoughts and thinking, difference of attitude , difference in defining success, difference in defining meaning, one thing in my recovery that has always seemed to be present is the conflict between responsibiliuty and meaning, clean house and helping others is our primary purpose, but what do we do when we feel exploited by others, used, taken advantage of? They say us alcoholcs want other people to judge us by our intentions when in fact the world often judge us based upon our action or inaction. Working the program leads to different beliefs, because my very best thoughts and thinking got me to the rooms of AA HALT Hungry Angry Lonely and tired. Over the span of my sobriteyt, my fears have seemed to stay the same, fearful of intimate relationships, fearful of letting people to close, people are dangerous, people can hurt you, people can kill you, people can use you, people can lie to you, people can steal your money, people can tell you what you want to hear until they get their way, then forget you just as fast as you met them. I came to AA feeling like a complete living contradiction, saying one thing and doing a complete opposite thing, they say we always have a choice, but it always feels like life external circumstances seem to control or limit what actual decisions you do have or don't have if that makes sense. Makingthe wrongdecisions or making the right decision, engagingin life or withdrawning from life, Life can become so meaningless, and pointless, it's just thisredundant cycle that never ends, people are born, they live, they die, over and over and over again, I've always found it mind boggling that we can visit a sick friend in the hospital that's near death but in the very same building, women are giving birth and a new life is starting, one is ending, one is starting, and whatever happens between those days, doesn't seem that relevant, whatever happens is forgotten, just like my own past, no one knows what I have or have not done, and even me myself can barely remember a couple of weeks ago. I'm asked all kinds of questions that seem to be asked on assumptions that I understand the meaning of what their asking. For example, do I believe in God, what exactly does that mean, believe? Does it mean think of God, I speak about God. I pray the step 11 prayer asking for the knowledge of God's will and the ability to carry that out for today, but if the truth was known I rarely know what exactly do I believe about pretty much anything, and in the past, maybe I believed in Rationality, I believed in black and white instead of gray, I believed in poliarized thoughts going to extremes either negatively or positively. The steps helped me objective view my own thoughts andthinking, and that I was extremely superficial, and I didn't know myself very well, the phase, to thine ownself be true? well truth is relative, what might be true to me, will not be true for you, we are born and we will die is a truth for everyone, and the lie that more thinking is the solution, or turning to the external world for the answers to internal questions, doesn't work, I've heard it said, it's a  inside job, drinking always changed how I thought and felt, life seems to mysterious to honestly and genuinely understand, it's only to be experienced and shared, I know so often I entere situations with presuppostions, reconceived ideas and conditions and when all of that isn't fulfiled there's just pure disappointment and letdown. Dr Jung seems to be very explicit on the deeper issues of life like our conscious, our instincts, our intuitions things which are apart of our lives but are rarely spoken about except in certain circles, ideas, they say alcoholics are bankrupt idealist, we have clung to specific ideas whether or not they are our own genuine ideas, or they are just old ideas that have circulated in human existence that we just decide to adopt as our own, but nothing ahout doing that is authentic and genuine, we are only conforming our behaviors and demeanor to what has already happened before, this is something I've observed in AA< that whatever I am experiencing, whatever I am feeling, thinking, saying, or doing I'm not alone, AA took away my permanent uniquness. I certainly believe that the way I was raised and my childhood experiences led me to engage life is specific way, and changing that, isn't honest all that easy, espcially on an emotional level or bases. What constitutes reality? Because all we have is our own personal perceptions of reality and all we have is our personal attitudes towards reality towards other people, and at what point do we often drift off into delusion rather than continue to remain grounded in reality with meaning. My point is, how are we to live our lives? We are to conform to scoiety, well there's 200 countries in the world and I can assure you, if you take all of your values and all of your beliefs and all of your priotities and transfer to another culture, it will not work, so we adapt and adjust, but then you hop on a plane and transfer to yet another new culture and country, alnd all of what you learned in the previous culture just will not work nor will it be held valueable in the new culture, so the new culture will demand you abandon the values of the previous culture and then adapt still another new version of reality in the new culture, there are basic life truths, food, thirst,  no matter where you are on the planet people need to eat, people need water, people need shelter, beut beyond that, the customs, the rituals, the philoisphy of each culture are unique in a way, and where do we fit in, in all of this. I've lived extensively in foreign culutres and after leaving them look back and ask myself why I behaved and acted the way I did, well it's the human effort to assimilate and become apart of, Well that's enough of my ramblings. I'm greatful for these steps that give me the road map out of the alcoholic insantiy which seems to never xompltely vanish in our lives

alan Monday, 14 January 2019 12:56 pm
Alan alcoholic I changed the topic to MY LIFE WAS UNMAGEABLE We can’t change our thinking through thinking but by actions creating new pattern. In the same way, we can correct the unmanageability through not drinking and working the steps.

David 13 01 2019 2:53 pm (sent from my mobile)
Maximizing the negative and muting the positives, having PTSD, and other struggles with low self esteem, depression, loneliness and my predispasition to depression and abandonment, and rejection, and difficulty being around people, most of the time I just feelinvisble until there is something someone wants from me, then I become the most important person in the room, until people get what they wantfrom me and then they vanish as fast as theyappeared.I've been extremely depressed for quite some time and feel like I'm down deep down low stuck in a whole or pit of drepssion, for me alcohol was a tool so I thought to resolve my sadness andmy depression, feeling numb, lost and scared has been where I seem to go so easily. Im gald to start working through these steps, it's been amazing to think about just how powerless I am and maybe alot of my problems have been attemtping to have power over poeple places and things, when that is completely the wrong way to even look at liefe and situations, working the steps helps pull the blinders off my eyes to see just exactly what it is that I do have power over which is my attitude and perspective, for years I lived in utter unhappiness and people pelasing, doing my best to appease and please, but when I nearly drank myself to death, none of those people, I mean none of them, that I made so much effort to please were there for me, nobody was there in those times but my AA family, and had it not been for them and for those here, who only knows really where I would be today in my life. 

David 13 01 2019 3:00 am (sent from my mobile)
King/Baby, driven by a hundred forms of self pity, self delusion, and fear, I came into AA, in so muchdenial, and so much self hatred it was toxic, I came in with the mind set of all or nothing, I want it all or Fk it all, guilt and shame were my dearest of friends, and fear was like this massive tumor that engulfed all my choices, all my thoughts, all my behavior, all my feelings, I was terrified and scared of pretty much everyone and everything, isolation. I never knew just how unhealthy or sick I was, again my warped perceptions of reality, my warped perceptions of myself, and my warpedperceptions of responsibility and meaning in life had a death grip on my life, I came in thinking I didn't need to change anything, but as the step work revealed I needed to change pretty much everything, my warped perceptions oflife to me were normal and very natural, infact I felt like or thought that I was living life pretty well naturally and normally like anyone else, but one area in my life I was completely lost and dysfunctional involved relationships, i had no meaningful and healthy relationships of any kind, and it seems like my disease takes me to that place naturally, I seem to naturally withdraw from life, withdraw from being engaged, but I have to come in here and tell on myself, tell on my disease, I can get a feeeling of being over whelmed very easy and I dont seem to process things very well, apart of my co dependency issues isthat I love to talk about your problems and listen to your day, because it keeps me from dealing with my own stuff, for me it's a coping skill really, most days I feel fractured internally, internally I often just feel hollow and empty and don't even feel alive spiritually, but then sometimes that seems to change and I feel full of life and full of love, but again I'm here because I'm not all there, have a great day

David Friday, 11 January 2019 4:08 am
good morning, 
Cio dependency is a mystery to me, it's probably something I have problems with, but until now I honstly don't understand co dependency the way I feel about. I know coming from a child abuse background, one factor that plays apart of feeling powerless, when your in an abusive environment, you loose your sense of power, violence worked for me as a kid to regain my power and self dignity and it helped to set defined boundaries, the steps, dealing with CPTSD is hell, I used alcohol for many years to cope with my internal emptiness, feeling empty and lost and confused, the healing takes time

alan Thursday, 10 January 2019 10:12 am
Hi all, Alan alcoholic.

It's been helpful to me to concentrate on the first part of Step One; powerlessness (over alcohol and what else); as I've been able to work out more clearly some related factors.

One factor is CO-DEPENDENCY and recent events have borne out how this program can work in that area as long as I act accordingly and turn theory into practice.

I've noticed in all my affairs, marriage, friendships, other relations, that things which used to send me into a spin no longer do that. Taking offence or taking things too personally is a very deblitating form of emotional dependency. I found a big change in this when I focused on what we learn in AA: That I am powerless over alcohol, including other peopl's drinking, and also over the thoughts, actions and beliefs of others.

Another of our mantras, "Live and let live", also comes to mind but it has so much more meaning when I apply the above principles. There comes a point where I need to let go of any "help" I was trying to give to the other person and accept that things are as they are. We have that thing too in the serenity prayer when we get to "accept the things I cannot change". This doesn't mean that I withdraw and stop carrying the principles in all my affairs, both to other alcoholics or those in my entourage.

Once again we have the alcoholic's classic dilemma; a compromise, a middle road, faced with the cunning baffling powerful enemy of alcohol, it seems that I'd better do that rather than face failure. Who cares to admit complete defeat? well I do for one.

alan Thursday, 10 January 2019 10:12 am
Hi all, Alan alcoholic.

It's been helpful to me to concentrate on the first part of Step One; powerlessness (over alcohol and what else); as I've been able to work out more clearly some related factors.

One factor is CO-DEPENDENCY and recent events have borne out how this program can work in that area as long as I act accordingly and turn theory into practice.

I've noticed in all my affairs, marriage, friendships, other relations, that things which used to send me into a spin no longer do that. Taking offence or taking things too personally is a very deblitating form of emotional dependency. I found a big change in this when I focused on what we learn in AA: That I am powerless over alcohol, including other peopl's drinking, and also over the thoughts, actions and beliefs of others.

Another of our mantras, "Live and let live", also comes to mind but it has so much more meaning when I apply the above principles. There comes a point where I need to let go of any "help" I was trying to give to the other person and accept that things are as they are. We have that thing too in the serenity prayer when we get to "accept the things I cannot change". This doesn't mean that I withdraw and stop carrying the principles in all my affairs, both to other alcoholics or those in my entourage.

Once again we have the alcoholic's classic dilemma; a compromise, a middle road, faced with the cunning baffling powerful enemy of alcohol, it seems that I'd better do that rather than face failure. Who cares to admit complete defeat? well I do for one.

alan Wednesday, 9 January 2019 10:01 am
Alan alcoholic.

Our first Zoom step meeting of 2019 will be Friday 11 January from 7 to 8pm Paris time.

David 07 01 2019 2:07 am (sent from my mobile)
Good Morning, My thoughts and actions can propel me toward growth or turn me down the road to old habits and to booze. Sometimes turning points are beginnings as when I decide to start praising, instead of condemning someone. Or when I begin to ask for help instead of going it alone. Daily Reflections Jan 7. I'm not stranger to loneliness, it's a fact of life I've embraced sense I was a little boy, the feelings of deep dark loneliness have been my closes friends sense I was a young kid, sense around 8 years old I' felt like I was abandoned and betrayed by my mother, my father and most of all a God or Higher Power, unless you've experienced such darkness and loneliness I seriously doubt you'd know what I'm talking about, as a small boy I felt helpless especially with the constant violence and threat of violence that I encountered as a young boy, no one was coming to help me, not God or anyone else was coming to help me get freedom from the living hell, I've heard it said that religion is for those who are scared of going to hell and spirituality are for those of us who have been in hell and made it back, being prideful and being self sufficient has cripplid my growth along my journey of recovery, Living and growing up with a woman, some choose to call mother, who has severe mental illness is a living hell, and in those days so long ago, I felt completely terrified and helpless, there was even a time back then I went to the neighbors house in a desperate attempt to get help, the police took my mother away for three days and I felt like it was ok to live again, I felt like the hell was over, until she returned only to pick up where she left off, there is some part of me frozen or stuck back there in the past that I can't seem to wake up or open up, there's been several episodes through my recovery where I've relived past traumas, a Doctor told me those are called emotional flashbacks, which once finished, seem to provide me temporary relief but thats about it, learned helplessness has been something I've been plagued with all my life, so when it comes to powerlessness, I'm reminded of a episode or an attack that happen when I was 13 years old, my mother had me pinned to the living room floor, she got off on over powering me for me some reason, it was that day laying pinned to the living room floor strattled by my mother, that I made a decision either this woman is going to kil me here today, or this violence and abuse at least physical violence and abuse is going to stop, or if it continues it will be me who will be giving it to her, instead of the other way around, so I clinched my right fist and mustered as much inner strength as I could muster and punched her straight in the face, it knocked her glasses off and as she took the blow, she kind of become dazed for a moment, she become irrate and began slamming my head in the floor while strattling me, I kind of was happy if death found me because it meant freedom from this sick situation that I no longer wanted to participate in, as she continued to beat my head into the floor, she become exhausted and tired and set there strattling my body, when she was done, I was not unconscious, so I clinched my fist and punched her face a couple of more times this time knocking her false teeth out of her mouth and across the room, at this point I believe she realized this wasn't going to work out like all the hundreds of times before, so she got up, walked over and picked her teeth up, picked her glasses up and came over and stood in front of me with a confused clare, she begin shoving me, but she couldn't knock me down, it was at this point in the attack that I felt a inner desire arise within me, I wanted my mother to run from the house in fear of her life, just like I had run some five years before, I was going to beat her within inches of her death or until she run away in fear of me, I cannot explain the sense of power that over came me in that moment, I felt like I was taking my power back, I felt like I was getting my self respect and dignity back something this bitch had been taking from me for five plus years now. After shoving me, she got tired and confused, as we stood there face to face I began beating her in the face until her lip began bleeding, I felt like I was finallybig enough to start defining my boundaries,  as she stood there and bled I began having internal conflicts on one hand I felt impowered that I had communicated effectively to this person that my boundaries would no longer be violated, but on the other hand I just wanted unconditional love and acceptance from this woman, something obviously this woman was incapable of providing. She stood there for a moment then run to the kitchen to get my father, now for sure I realized I would die and be free from this hell, my father came in the living room and confronted me, I wouldn't talk to him, as my mother looked on, my father took me outside to the front porch and asked what had happened, I simply explained to my dad that I justdid to mom what she has been doing to me for five years of my life and if that if he wanted to know what I had done to her, he should ask her what she's had been doing to me for five years, well he got pissed off at me and asked me not to hit my mother, I felt betrayed by my father, he was taking up for my mother instead of protecting his son from a twisted bitch,things changed after that day, I had taken my power back, it took me three years in recovery for these painful experiences to begin surfacing, these experiences of betrayal and violence and I believe my God  has done that in such a way where I can process it slowly, as the days went on from there, I attacked my mother speratically, in like manner as she had done to me over the previous past five years, but the only thing I believe that stopped me from killing her was my instinctive need or desire for a mother's love, something which I still cling to until today, I feel void and empty within and have learned what kind of damage having an abusive mother can have on a boy, I became very violent in school constantly getting in a fist fight anytime I felt disrespected or treated rudely by other kids in school, so when we discuss this topic of powerlessness I am all to well versed in this matter and have felt helpless concerning this matter sense I was about 8 years old, As a kid I only knew violence, abuse and betrayal, it's only by the Grace of a loving Higher Power and my family of AA people that I've been able to keep sober these past few 24 hours, so yes powerlessness is something I know very deeply and very intimately, today I try to nurture that still wounded kid within, I try to get him to be civilized the best he can be and I try not to treat him like shit, there's alot of emotional damage and wounds and under development still to work through day by day, I feel shame often for even having my own emotions, for even having my own thoughts, and it's amazing how toxic and sick one becomes when subjected to such living conditions as a kid, that has been one thing I've become aware of in recovery, Today I know that I am not powerless, today I have a chance to get out of hell the hell of my mind and thoughts and broken thoughts and embrace life, today though I am aware that there are some very sadistic people in the world. Today I am greatful to reclaim my self dignity and self respect and not allow people to trod over me or treat me disrespectfully no matter what the conditions, today I don't have to carry the bitterness anymore I can throw it out and let the sunshine of the spirit shine through. 

David 06 01 2019 1:08 pm (sent from my mobile)
your at the right place at the right time, have you ever felt this way in your life? There have been times in my life where I had a situation and had some opposition, but I had a internal sense that no matter what happen this was mine and it was meant to be mine and nothing no one did would change that fact. I'm in a place right now, where I've been getting what I want and getting what I need and everything has seemed or appeared to be in order, but there's been several things that have happened over the last few months that have changed all of that, I'm in a place now of feeling I'm back in complete chaos in my life, and I'm in a place in my life that everything that seemed to have meaning to me has just been vaccumed out, vaporized in a way, so how do I approach life now, I'd like to speak my truth but what is my truth? the truth is I'm paralzyed in fear at the moment completely nearly demobilized in fear, fear of what I honestly don't know, I know when I come into AA I felt like my path in life had walked me into a corner where there was no way out, there was no more path, I was at the end of my rope per say. and there's apart of me now that just feels like what ever I knew before want work for me into the future, it will just recreate more of the same, of course new situations provide new opportunity to explore new parts of myself that might have never been realized had things remained the same in my life, I felt like I moved forward in life and expanded my limits before, but now I feel like I'm shrinking from life somehow, or withdrawning frmo being engaged in life, and the moment I feel im getting established in life things happen unexpected that quickly take that away from me, of course I understand that life isn't fair, life is unfaitr, and life can make you bitter when things dont work out as you plan for them to, so where do we stand then? when this happens? for me I often get a attitude of resignation and indifference but one day at a time, hard work is great, but if your miserable angry and scared in the persent then you begin trying to project yourself into some mystical future where happiness and enjoyment will be realized and I believe that's why we are encouraged to live life one day at a time, just for today, 

David 06 01 2019 7:16 am (sent from my mobile)
There's two things I've always struggled with in my life, truth and responsibility, in our program we read to thine ownself be true, and most of my life I've spent wasted pretending to be interest in things that I quite honestly have had no interest in. Working the program and the steps revelaed in me, lots of self deceptions, alot of programming either by my culture or my parents, and erasing that crap and unlearning that crap has taken years of recovery. I observed years ago as a private investigator that poeple often times cannot handle the truth about their own lives, and I have often saught the truth but only reach a place where I feel I've just missed it or become more delusional than when I first started, the steps really opened my mind to my thinking, and my false or erroneous belief systems about myself, about choice, about pretty much everything. I learned so much about my nature in the step work, but I also re evaluated my life activities, and the do's and don't of life. I reached a place and point in my life or call it a mid life crisis of asking myself why I was living the way I was living and why I was doing what I was doing and what for, what was the meaning beneath it all? Did other people know something that I didn't know, was their some piece of information other opeople seemed to have about life that I had just missed? Truth, responsibility and meaning, I spent years while drinking chasing money, and never had enough, and no matter how much money I earned or received it never was enough and it left me feeling empty and lonely. Step work, lead me down a path ofabandoning old ideas, abandoning old belief systems that up to my sobriety date had kept me motivated and active in life. Sense I was a kid, I was raised to have a hard work ethic, and while outwardly I had a property investment company, a private investigative firm, a limousine company and a excavating comapny and earning quite well I had a wife and a few kids, but within, I felt completely empty and void of any real true meaning, it's like I had bought into the game, whatever the game may be, concerning a higher power I had impossed upon me a certain concept of God or a HP and I was extremely angry at God, emotionally I felt bankrupt, empty and having my whole life wrapped up and full of people who were in my perspective only using me to meet their own selfish needs and desires. 
I felt lost in life, completely unprepared to embrace life on lives terms, I felt weak and powerless and forced to accept things or want things that I didn't really want and to do things I really didn't want to do to get what really didn't provide much meaning to my life. Over the years I have become very cynical towards other people, when someone approaches me, my first skeptical thought is, "what does this person want from me, or what is this person wanting to do to me, in order to get me to do whatever it is they want me to do"? I felt completely sucked into the debt/credit game and dynamic and consuming all my life and all my time and all my energy playing the game, the game that I never wanted to be involved in to begin with. That's why when I got sober, I started doing some real soul searching, what really was I interested in doing with my life, what is the game? and how to play it? I remember setting drunk on my sofa one day and wondering how did my life bring me to such a place and point and condition? Where had I gone wrong, and I found myself setting in a life so far from the life I had desired for myself I wondered how did this happen? I've always been told, we always have a choice, but there's apart of life that involve the "givens" Life gives you challenges, it gives you set backs, it gives you things you never wanted or never asked for. I was raised to highly value "marriage" but my work as a private detective revealed to me that this social label meant nothing to so many people out there in the world, my work opened my eyes to so many human activies that left me delusional and confused as to why I had ever valued this social institution in thefirst place. What I found in my step work was so much of what I thought were not my thought at all, they were concepts and ideas I'd reach somewhere or had been told by someone along my journey of life. What exactly was I suppose to believe in? What exactly was I suppose to apply my energy and effort in life doing? What was I expecting, and something I learned in recovery was, there's many people who will not and cannot understand me, they never have and they never will and they never will, and alot of people speak and say things without ever knowing exatly what they are talking about. AA showed me the raw truth, the truth that I had my life full of people who honestly were not in my life when I needed support or help, they were there just trying to meet their needs. There have been times or phases in my life where I've felt or believed I was on the right path, but something would happen that would pull that reality out from under me and leave me lost and confused, and I've been involved in romantic relationships that seemed so fulfilling and satifying but as time marched on those relationships seemed to fade away and die, and life went on as if those relationships had never happend in the first place. The big book says we have to stop playing God, but all my life I've known inside myself that I am certainly not God and that life itself is much more than just one individule and their thoughts andfeelings and experiences, I know that personal expeirnece conditions one's mind in interpretating reality and life, but it's not exclusive by any means, it's just what we have experienced up to this point. I certainly felt entering AA that I was just completely ill informed about life in general and my place in the world. I had no desire to get sucked into the power struggle so many men get sucked into, money and power and social status I had no interest in any of that crap, to me it was worthless and serves no value or meaning to me. Powerlessness is a interesting thought, and recovery revealed to me just how many areas of life where I had been selling myself short, I wasn't good at standing up for myself, I wasn't good at being a true person, I felt strange and indifferent to alot of things that seem so important to other people. I wasn't interested in acquiring wealth and having houses and material possessions to project or impress people who never cared about me in the first place. When I started sobering up, I felt like a man clinging to a rock in a swift moving river, holding on for dear life and exhausting myself in the process, letting go, and going with the flow of life itself whether i understood it or not. Alot of my life, has been nothing more than a battle with utter boredom, and another part has been only going through the day to day motions of life, waking up, drink some coffee, speak to a few select people, eating some food, suriving paying a few bills and going to bed and waking up and doing it all over again, over and over and over again. I have met hundreds in AA that are just tired, exhausted, their miserable, depressed, lonely scared and unhappy, they have done their best with what they have, and they have fallen straight on their face. I'm grateful today to have experienced and attened AA meetings in about 8 different countries, and meeting people from a wide range of education, financial wealth and poverty our disease seems to be indifferent to most of those social values and cultural values we are conditioned to hold as our own. AA was and has been the one and only place in life where I've experienced a sense of belonging and sense of home, until AA I had no true or honest passion in my life, there was nothing I was involved in in life that you would find me being passionate about, nothing. Anyways im just rambling on and on, now what, I'm completely powerless for sure, but on the flip side there has been tons of things come along my path in life that are trly given's givens in life, I didn't have a choice who my parents were, or where I was born, or where I went to school alot of things were just given to me whether I wanted them to or not, I've met alot of AA people who have had enormous measures of suffering and pain and betrayal and hurt in their story, for example if I had it to do again I'm not sure I'd ever had any kids, recently my oldest son told me in a phone call to FUCK OFF, I cannot tell you how demoralizing that was, it was horrible experience. There has been so much about life, that I've felt stuck trying to figure it out, of course today, I dont have to figure it all out, I try not to do anything I dont want to do especially when I dont see the point in it, but I am going back through these stepts. 
I once heard it said that the problem with man is that he doesn't think, am I a mean man? a mean person a selfish person to want to live a meangingful and fulfilling life void of fear, anxiety or confusion? I know from the program playing the victim serves no real value in life, taking responsibility is important, but how does taking responsibility and the powerlessness of our disease run and work together. The steps showed me that everything I thought I know about life was wrong or it just wasn't working and drinking certaintly didn't fix anything especially my emotional problems. 

Chad 06 01 2019 5:56 am (sent from my mobile)
Chad, alcoholic.  Grateful to be sober, and thanks for the helpful topic and shares.  Like Alan, I started to drink in my teens, qualified as an alcoholic from the start as defined by the Big Book p.44, if I remember right, and went through a decade of hell before the awareness that I'm powerless over alcohol came to me, I believe as a gift from the God of my understanding.  The alcoholism and other mental illnesses in both my family trees had wired me with the strong possibility of becoming alcoholic, and childhood trauma sealed the deal, I believe, like it may have for Bill W; my friend and hero Mel B (66+ years sober when he passed!) said that Bill's mother was a "very abusive person."  By the time I got sober, I had become abusive when drunk, had nearly died, and had come who knows how horribly close to killing by drunk driving accident.  That's the horror this program saves me from day by amazing day, giving me a "very good life" (Mel B) instead for a little over 17 years, odaat!  

David 06 01 2019 5:33 am (sent from my mobile)
Sunday, January 6Thought for the Day
Keeping sober is the most important thing in my life. The most important decision I ever made was my decision to give up drinking. I am convinced that my whole life depends on not taking that first drink. Nothing in the world is as important to me as my own sobriety. Everything I have, my whole life, depends on that one thing. Can I afford ever to forget this, even for one minute? 
Meditation for the Day
I will discipline myself. I will do this disciplining now. I will turn out all useless thoughts. I know that the goodness of my life is a necessary foundation for its usefulness. I will welcome this training, for without it, God cannot give me His power. I believe that this power is a mighty power when it is used in the right way.
Prayer for the Day
I pray that I may face and accept whatever discipline is necessary. I pray that I may be fit to receive God's power in my life.

This was our reading this morning in the AA meeting online, we are beyond human help, we must find a power greater than ourselves for our diseae, the only real enemy for me today is contempt prior to investigation, closing my mind off from the sunlight of the spirit, taking my will and my life back.
Most of my life, I've tried to lead and live my life from the outside in, feeling hollow and emtpy and always searching for pursuing stuff to feel the void within, stuff that would help heal my soul sickness, they say we have a soul sickness an emotional illness of types, some of us had grave emotional and mental disorders but could recover if we had the capacity to be honest. 
I come from a abusive background where these very things mentioned equalled a death sentence growing up, honesty was not of any value growing up, what was of value was hiding, and pretending, the program called for brutual honesty, something I still find challanging in my recovery, they say our program is about the language of the heart, speaking and sharing our ESH from our hearts and souls and something I had no idea how to do and still find it challenging to speak and live from the heart, I easily get cold and calus withdrawn, disconnected and scared even after all this time of being sober 

My ego can still get the best of me I recall a old Cherokee Indian proverb, about the two wolves within, the positve one and the negative one, and which ever one you feed will become the stronger of the two. I know without sobreity, nothing matters in this life to drink is to die, and being powerless over that first drink has been the most scariest part of my life journey. 
Even until today I still struggle with needleess guilt and shame, I think it's apart of the dysfunction of growing up in an abusive family, where betrayal and rejection and abandonment and silence were the core values, thank God slowly through my step work my HP has returned my heart soul and spirit a day at a time. 

alan Saturday, 5 January 2019 8:09 pm
Alan alcoholic, still on subject of POWERLESSNESS

The addiction developed early for me, at around thirteen I was drinking alcoholically. The fact that I discovered a way to get out of reality and get an illusion of belonging was a marked contrast to the years of feeling unwanted and unloved within the family as had been the case from about ten years old. An extremely strong dependency was thus formed from an early age and the warped alcoholic thinking came too.

A great amount of what seemed to be thinking went on in my head although today I realise that my mental processes were befuddled by alcoholism and basically faulty; particularly narrow and blind to so many things others perceived as normal by "normal" people. I thus grew up ignorant of many simple yet good facts of life and deprived of any real social skills or awareness.

In order to make sense of my previous confusion AA has greatly helped me, especially where it comes to the powerlessness I experienced over alcohol from the very first moment I began to consume it. It had rapidly become a necessity and I couldn't work out why until I shared in AA meetings and began using writing as a therapy in the untangling process. Writing it down is, I believe inseperable from thinking and additionally an impovement on thought alone.

Many times I've been surprised at what I have discovered about my inner workings, bothe past and present, when I shared in vocal or written format. It's not always easy as the admissions and conclusions I came to were not without pain and were accompanied by an ego deflationg process. I wish courage to those who will try to write it down and, knowing how difficult some find the written form, encourage you to try as it's such a worthwhile part of recovery.

After all, at the beginning of Step One you'll find this statement: "Who cares to admit complete defeat?". My you find the courage to do that now and with no regrets as we build ourselves a sober and safe recovery.

alan Friday, 4 January 2019 9:01 am
Alan alcoholic

Thanks, that's an interesting point about the powerlessness over other things such as ex wives. I'd just like to add my particular reading of the situation.

In fact to me these are the grey area between the two parts of the step, between my  POWERLESSNESS and the UNMANAGEABILITY. My powerlessness over alcohol led to my drinking which led to my behaviour which created the unmanagebility in many aspects of my life.
I'm not globally powerless however; When I get abstinent I begin have choices over how to behave and these choices will develop as I progress into sobriety, both medically and spiritually. Without alcohol to warp my judgement it's a completely different situation and, although I can't change the past, I can change my evaluation of it and learn from past experience. This honest appraisal should help me to avoid future repetitions of old scenarios and also enable me to serenely let go of my old ideas and my old fears and regrets.
The process continues throughout my sobriety and thst's why I'm grateful to be able to share here and work the first half of Step One. Progress not perfection and infinitely prferrable to backsliding! This is hpw God can grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

David 04 01 2019 4:48 am (sent from my mobile)
Certain people come to mind when i thinknof powerlessness, primarily my x wives, i cant change them and i have no power over them , its sad but true, its a tough subject when it comes to kids to, the moms always do the power trip card with the kids, i told my x wife before to stop using my son as a pay check, to get her lazy ass up and go work like the rest of us. I miss my kids alot but when it comes to dealing with their mothers, its like a kidnap.and ransome scenerio. Its exhausting because i always feel like their playing a power card with my kid, they want absolute power over my kids lives. I want to give up its not worth the aggrivation but at the same time i dont want to turn my back on my kids, but all of this drama i know im powerless over. Thank God for the program its the only thing that helps me through these pot wholes in life. Today im powerless over my x wives, im powerless over anyone or anything out there

George Thursday, 3 January 2019 10:21 pm
Good evening All.... George - alcoholic. First thing's First. And today that's me (did I really say that?). I mean my wellbeing, my relationship with my HP. How I choose to act. And most importantly not to pick up that First drink. It's been an interesting couple of days in money negotiations on a project / potential job. It's not going well for them. It's going well for me becuase I sent my HP in first - and asked for the right words for the discussion (I did not specify whose mouth those words should come out of).

If at the end of they day I get what I need financially, then great. If I don't, and the 'no' is delivered in the way that their side of the conversation has gone so far, that's great too. I will have been spared a difficult working relationship. And if this programme has taught me anything, it is not to people please, fear of economic insecurity will leave me, and I will intuitvely know how to handle situations that (for 20 years!) used to baffle me. In-credible. Just amazing. I will be walking away from a salaried position if necessary - and that feels the right thing to do for me.

Whoever thought I'd be able to do that!!! I Love you All, thank you for helping me on my journey. Results like this is the result of fellowship attendance, working my programme, and being a grateful alcholic. I might even dare to say that I am proud of myself today :0)

MarkB Thursday, 3 January 2019 10:04 pm
Good evening, Mark, alcoholic.  Firstly, welcome to the new members (Jen), great to have you among us on this happy road of sobriety.  Secodnly, absolutely lovely to hear from you Carol, I do hope sober life is treating you well across the Border.  Finally, Alan, Wednesdays would be better for me for Step Meetings please. Fridays will be very difficult.  Appreciate you setting up.  Yours in fellowship, Mark.

alan Thursday, 3 January 2019 8:15 pm
Alan alcoholic

Thanks for your shares on the topic of POWERLESSNESS

It was good to be reminded of an aspect I'd pushed into the back of my mind: that drinking had ceased to be a pleasure and become a chore and a necessity.

Once I got to that point it was obvious that I was powerless as I was unable to prevent myself from consuming what had effectively become a poison. My warped mind simply refused to see this fact, let alone take any action.

It was only with the help of AA that I was able to break the deadlock and begin to recover and find real relief.

David Thursday, 3 January 2019 7:42 am
unmanageable in our program doesn't equate to withdrawn, begging, indifference, it doesn't mean passive or inactive, we even have a chapter"into action"  perhaps unmanageability and self will run right go hand in hand. We certainly have a disease that we can't think our way out of, or reason our way out off, when it comes to alcohol our thinking is so irrational and obessive to extremely. 

Carol CWL 02 01 2019 11:02 pm (sent from my mobile)
Alan, Mark, George +++++ Wishing all of you a very Happy New Year, continued sobriety, joy, good health, serenity and prosperity... I do hope to see you all again at the Sunday evening online meeting in the near future, but in the meantime - much love, Carol (alcoholic) -

Chad 02 01 2019 9:36 pm (sent from my mobile)
Chad, alcoholic.  Thanks for the helpful topic and shares.  My friend and hero Mel B passed with over 66 years of continuous sobriety, and at maybe 64 years he told me "I go to a meeting damn near every day because I want it to keep working!," I believe because he recognized that he was as powerless to stay sober on his own then as he had ever been.  Hoping and praying to have that attitude one day at a time.  My own powerlessness shows in how I nearly died by choking on vomit in a blackout drunk on a night when I had only planned on drinking a little bit, and I swore off forever (again) after that but only made it maybe a week.  And time after time I would drive drunk like my brothers and others, unable to see that I might kill someone.  What a miracle gift, being free from that deadly risk, one day at a time through the 12 Steps of AA!  

David Wednesday, 2 January 2019 2:39 pm
Powerless over that first drink, I think back to the last few months of my drinking, and remember standing in my kitchen drinking a bear at 9am in the morning and drinking three other beers in rampant succession to calm my nerves and to get rid of theshakes and having this insane fear and feeling that drinking was not a choice now it was a chore. and not only that but how or what would I do to stop, I hid alcohol from myself, I would go buy alcohol then hide part of it in my closet, I put alcohol in my camper in the back yard and would just go out there and drink and keep it out of the house, I felt like a soulest empty shell, I remember setting drunk on my sofa contemplating or morbidly reflecting how my life had come to where it was at that time, where had I gone wrong, My four year old son at the time, went to the fridge and grabbed a cold beer and brought it and set it beside me. I called the boy as he walked away and asked why he had done that, and in his innocent 4 year old voice said, because it makes you happy dad. In his eyes the only thing that ever made dad happy was being drunk, the guilt and shame rushed over me like a wave at the beach. I knew inside myself that no 4 year old child should be subjected to such a toxic person, I tried to hide my drinking and stay distant from my kids so they wouldn't see it, I was miserable, lonely and unhappy, but no matter what I had to drink, I'd tell myself four beers and that's it, but then it never stopped I'd just keep drinking into the wee hours of the morning, I'd drink to drawn the guilt fear and shame and regret from years of life lived on self will run right, being full of arrogance and pride and being full of myself, but not once in all of this confusion fear and misery did I ever once consider putting the drink down, I thought about packing a bag and taking off, moving the kids somewhere new and starting off, but the real prison was the prison of my mind. 

Powerlessness for me is not the same as responsibility, there's the popular saying in AA God is doing for me what I cannot do for myself, great saying and a load ofrelief but at the same time and on the flip side of the coin, God will not do for me what I can do for myself, so many times in my hourney have I been given great chances or opportunieis but screwed them up because of irresponsble behavior, child like and childish behavior, the powerlessness for me comes from not having the power to keep a plug in the jug, when i loose a job, or a girlfriend or loose my way in life, as a  alcoholic I must drink, I have to drink, and then once I take that first drink the allergic reaction kicks in and its drinking until oblivion. For this alcohol the lesson of learning just how powerless I was over the drink took place long before I ever found AA. For a long time to in AA< you guys and gals were my higher power, I was shut off from the sunlight of the spirit, and it was through you people from all walks of life that my HP spoke through to me. 
Getting late off to bed, night

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